My daughter has a friend who is working her first full-time job - at a telemarketing company doing telephone surveys. At work the other day, she was called to Human Resources. She had no idea why but, when she sat down, she was presented with a report -- about her Facebook page. It seems the HR department has people who are specifically tasked with looking into every employee's online presence. The girl was asked to remove certain pictures from her page. Some, I agree they can ask her to remove... others I'm really not sure. I guess laws vary from place to place and country to country but here's what they told her. Because she is listed in the company's searchable employee directory and her Facebook page bears her real name, they wanted her to:
- Remove the pictures where she is wearing clothing that has visible company logos or name (this I can understand... I believe they have the right to not allow their logo/name to appear in any pictures they deem "inappropriate")
- There was a photograph of the girl vomiting in a park (she was drunk, of course, and someone had found it amusing to take her picture... why she would post that, I don't know... but again... she's 19 (legal age here in Canada), so yeah). There was also a photograph that she had been tagged in (she didn't post it, someone else did and identified her). It seems that she didn't know she was being photographed because she isn't even looking in the direction of the camera. However, enough of her face is visible that she can be identified - and she is clearly topless (again... 19... poor decision-making, I'd say). Anyway, the HR person strongly "suggested" that she should "consider" telling that friend to remove the photo.
The justification she was given for the report is that the items on it do not represent the image the company wishes its employees to project and, in no uncertain terms, they will not allow the company name or logo to be tied to anyone's online profile pages. I would think they should have a formal policy that states all this stuff and that employees agree to when they are hired, just to be sure that nothing improper is being done on either side (employee or employer)... but I have no personal experience with this so I'd love to hear people's thoughts. Has this ever happened to you? Do you think about your profiles on various websites and what they project about you, especially if you're applying for a job? How would you react if you received the kind of report this girl received?
[question posted by thinkingoutloud]
responses and comments:
that kind of thing have never happened to me. i think if you are working in a reputable company you would not want your image to be bad offline or online right? and companies have to protect their interest too so no client will back out if they see that their employees are not that respectful, with pics like that posted online. yeah i agree with you, there should be some kind of agreement before hiring someone and have them sign it, that is to make sure that employees will always be careful on what they post online, so the company's image will not be jeopardized. [jayrene]
I agree, jayrene. I imagine that, especially because this is her first job, the girl certainly doesn't want to feel that she is disrespecting her employer and, either way, I think some of those images shouldn't really be on a public profile anyway. But some young people have a considerable lack of foresight about what they put online, too. They share so much personal information and such and never give it a second thought. I'm not sure the employer is within their bounds asking her to take things down but, if nothing else, it might make her a little more sensitized to what she is making available. In the long run, that will be good for her AND the employer. Thanks so much for sharing your opinion! :) [thinkingoutloud]
Pictures with the company logo yeah I can see where they would ask her to take those off. As for the other pictures well they legally can't make her take those down. Does she use her real name for her user name? If so she should be able to change her user name that would help. Also she might want to change her privacy settings so only friends can see the content of her facebook page. [barrudaki]
This is a good reminder for many people, barrudaki... thank you for sharing it. I do believe the profile carries her real name, which would be how they found it in the first place. Kind of aligning with my first comment, above, I really think people in her age bracket don't like to use the privacy settings. I work in online communities (often with teens) for a living and they say things like "But if I make my stuff private, I won't be popular!" or "Well how will I get a lot of friend requests if I'm set to private?!" Circular logic, I know... but the attitude seems pretty widespread. Maybe it does take situations like this one with the HR department to have people think a bit more about what they are projecting in their online presence. [thinkingoutloud]
I had heard some companies were checking facebook, myspace etc. before and after hiring people. Some people aren't hired because of what they find ahead of time. What I don't think is fair is that they hired her then took her in there and told her this stuff. Like you said 19 year olds post some silly pictures that makes you scratch your head and say what were they thinking!! Another thing is because it beared her real name who is to say someone else doesn't have the same name. They knew who she was because they knew what she looked like. Someone searching their database wouldn't know if it was her or not unless they posted a picture of her on their data base and she would have to sign something when she was hired saying it was ok to put her name and picture on a public database. [onemomsmission]
Oh definitely, onemomsmission... companies do check now. My friend's son is studying and training to be a police officer. One of the first things they told him in his information packet was that he was not allowed to have his Facebook page. He's had one for years but followed all their requests and requirements to the letter. He is a very serious young man about what he wants as his career in law enforcement. Interestingly, just this past week, he was "green lighted", as it were, that he can have his page back up. You make a good point about them associating her simply by her name. If you search out a name on Facebook or any social networking site, you're right -- you'll probably get pages of hits with people of the same name. So it does seem heavy-handed if they believe people will automatically associate this one girl with their company by her name alone. I appreciate your comments! [thinkingoutloud]
I think I would feel very violated at least at first. Facebook is an off-the-job social network. It's kind of an infringement on my rights if they are going through my pages and telling me what to delete. However, you didn't mention what kind ofcompany it is. For instance, if I had someone working for my ministry I would have trouble with some of those associations! I don't understand not wanting their logo displayed though, that's sort of like free advertisement! I think I agree that if they want to use these guidelines they should be in written form before hiring someone so that they are made aware of the stipulations they are going to put forth. [macdingolinger]
Boy, something really doesn't make sense there! If it is a marketing complany or telemarketing why would she need to give her name ever? She shouldbe able to remain anonymous.... strange indeed! [macdingolinger]
The company logo I can see. i don't know what your trade mark laws are up there, etc, but I think they are pretty universal. Everything beyond that as far as I am concerned is none of the companies business. even the photo of her consuming alcohol whlie under age. Ilegal, yes. however, again, none of the companies business. I can even see the complaint over her being identified with the company because of the logo on her shirt and not representing the company in so flattering way. but ok, remove the company logo or reference to it. Everything beyond that, is none of the companies business. [xfahctor]
Yep, I agree about the company logo, xfahctor! They have the right to tell her she can't display it. But here's the thing -- her alcohol consumption isn't even illegal. Legal drinking age in Canada is 18 and she is already 19, close to 20. That's where I stalled with this situation. Sure, some of her pictures are definitely not tasteful (and I think she really should have a little more common sense about what she thinks is appropriate and entertaining! LOL) but she is a legal adult. That's exactly why I wanted to start this discussion because I honestly don't know if a company has the right to go this far. Thank you for sharing your opinion! [thinkingoutloud]
I am not sure if I would like HR telling me to edit my page but if the friend had these things out there before she was hired, she is lucky she was hired. I know people in HR that are looking at MySPace and Facebook among others before people are hired. They feel that the person they see on the internet maybe a more honest representation of the person than the resume or what they saw on the interview. They maybe right. A person who has many pictures of them in a state of intoxication may be someone who calls in sick or comes to work intoxicated or hung over. Kids and I don't care what their age must realize that something that goes out in cyberspace is out there forever. I agree the kid should have been forewarned but I can't say that I disagree with the company based on what i have seen on these types of sites. [Debs_place]
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Debs_place! This is why I'm confused on the issue, quite frankly. I, too, know that there are lots of companies that are googling job applicants and looking at their overall online presence on sites like Facebook, Myspace, LinkedIn, all of them. Anyone applying for work in this tough economy, particularly, might want to be sure that their online appearance is in line with the types of companies they'd apply to or the kind of work they hope to do - because a lot of them DO look. Companies have a lot of choice in candidates and, as you've explained, they will definitely form opinions based on what they are able to see. I think this is why I'm surprised she is only getting this report now. If they were going to check, why wouldn't they have done so in the application phase instead of after they hired her, you know what I mean? Oh and you are exactly right in what you said... there are so many people (not just kids - I know adults that are doing the same things) that don't understand that most websites are not private places. Anything they post, comments, photos, all of it, is forever. Having a private profile page doesn't mean your photos will not be seen by others. There's nothing to stop a friend from posting the same photo to a non-private profile or a whole other site. Once it's posted, it's out there for good - and out of the original poster's control. Thanks for sharing your ideas about this! Most appreciated :) [thinkingoutloud]
I've certainly heard of this. Just yesterday morning, there was talk on this and there was this professional speaking. She said that it should not affect work reputation and employers normally won't check, so that is something that I was thinking. If the company could look into social networking sites of others, that is really something to think about. Factors that should be thought are: Never to use the real names on Facebook. Should have stick to using nicknames and to reveal full names only to contact lists. Since nothing is pretty much a secret online, unfortunately, should an employer catch someone putting on feisty pictures according to them, that person would have to remove those. I am pretty much neutral about this. But if something like that happens to me and I am being asked to remove pictures which I think are decent ones, I would really think hard about my own freedom of 'behavior' online. I suppose the non-decent pictures might provide some image and integrity things to them. Anyway, I'm still thinking about this issue pretty much. Feels like it's a growing trend for companies to look out for social networking sites of employees. [zed_k4]
LOL..I'll be glad to call you TOL then.. Thanks for that..wink [zed_k4]
Alot of employers here in the U.S. also look up a person's facebook or myspace before they even hire them. I am glad my boss didnt because im not the saint i make myself out to be =P. Anyways, though, I think that is stupid. As long as you are professional in the workplace, your personal life shouldnt matter. Who cares if you have drunkin orgies and streetwalk and get plastered every night? If you can pull yourself together every day for work and are professional and no one can TELL what kind of life you are leading just by looking at you, then the workplace should not make those kinds of requests of you. It is none of their business- even if you are wearing your work shirt! That is just my opinion though. =] [NessaFilth]
THAT's IT! That's a GREAT word for it... trophies! I couldn't think of the right way to describe what I was getting at LOL I guess like the old fish stories about the one that was <---THIS BIG---> and got away, maybe three drinks are a whole bottle or a few beers become a whole case. Depends on who is describing what was going on in the pictures ;) [thinkingoutloud]
Our school did that. I went to a very Christian school and people were called into the administration building for having the "red cups" in their photos and they weren't over the legal age to drink...but at that party we were all at there was no alcohol served because no one was over the age of 21 and it was her parents throwing us the party...and then once I got called in during my sophomore year because my boyfriend had a drink in his hand and I had a coke with a lime on the edge of the cup (guess it could be looked at as a drink like rum and coke)...but my boyfriend was 22 and I was only 19 and at a restaurant so naturally I couldn't drink. My school went really over board with this to the point where people were purposely posting pictures of people having red cups with people pouring non-alcoholic drinks into the cups to get the point across. I can understand the company not wanting to have the company logo on any of the pictures, that's understandable...but to have them remove other pictures I don't think is really right. I honestly don't think that companies should be looking at facebook accounts and whatnot of their employees. It's their personal life. If it isn't affecting their work in any way, shape or form then it shouldn't be a problem. [dreamr802]
Cool, yeah i would want to know how the HR saw her page. My sister is one of those people like accepts friend requests and boasts about how many friends she has on her page, I only accept people that I know or are friends of my friends or something to that extent but not someone that I don't know. [dreamr802]
I agree with some of this things, but sometimes, I think that the everyday privacy is taking from us in this days, credit check, backround check, they are even cheking on you, on internet. It is ok with me , I dont have anything to hide, but that this is way too far, this is just my opinion. I used to work in a very conservative company, but at lest after work I could be myself. [dianatapu]
I have to agree, dianatapu, that it seems we are being looked at closer and closer these days. Many job ads I read clearly state that applicants being seriously considered will have to submit to background checks or credit checks (depending on the job type). The only time I've ever been asked to agree to a background check was when I took on a consulting job that involved working with kids online. I thought it was important to have a clear background check on file and naturally agreed to it. But, you're right -- we all need to be able to have fun and let our hair down, as the expression goes, without having to constantly worry about who is going to get mad or who we might offend. [thinkingoutloud]
In all of my education classes they have told us to put all of that stuff on private or friends only because questionable content could keep us from getting jobs as teachers. I would be glad that they gave me the chance to fix my page without writing me up. Is it fair? Maby not, but what you put online is a representation of yourself and there are somethings that do not need to be public [okkidokitokki]
Amen to that! You've worked hard to have a valuable career and to have it ruined over something like social networking would be ludicrous. I think restricting your contact to those 18 and over is a smart choice to make. If the options are available, it's sensible to use them. A lot of the privacy options make sense too -- but the generation that has grown up not knowing a world without cell phones and social networks doesn't seem feel the need to keep anything private; everything is for public consumption. [thinkingoutloud]
We should all be aware that the internet is not a safe place, so we should always take extra precaution when uploading anything that will directly link to us and tarnish our image. When signing in to a particular social network, there are preferences/settings where we can choose who would be able to access/see our content or page. It is advisable that when you are uploading personal pictures to just limit it to persons you trust. In the case of the girl you have just mentioned, the company was right in its decision and they must have already learned from that experience to include such in their company policy. For the girl, I believe she has already seen her topless picture, but did not make the first move to have it deleted. Even if she was not the one who uploaded it, she should have made the effort since it was one of her friends who posted; unless, otherwise she also liked beeing seen by the public that way. In using the internet, we should always be careful so that we may not regret later. I believe, I would not be in such position as that girl, as I always make sure, my profile is protected. [kate635]
That's one of the drawbacks when the network is already big, one can no longer take control and monitor everything. So, this should serve as a lesson to all of us. :)) [kate635]
I dont know about laws in US, but I think what she does on any social n/w sites is her personal matter. Even if it is a company logo or she wearing a tshirt with the company logo or whatever, they can not ask her to take them down. Company can ask you not to use FB or social n/w sites from the office during office hours but what she has outside office is her personal matter. You can not track some person's "online presence" legally, I think it is "stalking" !! Tomorrow they might come up to her and say she can not have a person from a competitor company as her boyfriend ...lols... I think she should look for some other job. Btw make sure she puts this on her facebook profile so that other people know what kind of policies this company has. I think she is being harassed, instead of asking us, consult a lawyer ! [aschip]
Actually, aschip, I see it this way -- if someone puts information/photos/etc on a public website and they don't take any steps to make that information private or only viewable to certain individuals or groups, then it's not stalking. If you make it available, people can and will look at it. What they do AFTER they see it, though, is what I'm trying to understand at this point. I do agree that what you do outside the office is your own personal business and, as I was mentioning to another member in this discussion, it used to be that no one would even KNOW what you were doing outside the office unless you told them. Now people post confirmation by putting up all kinds of photos! LOL Companies have lots of rules. I just believe that they should tell you what those rules are when you are going to accept a job with them. Then, you know what you're dealing with. I laughed at your comment about not being able to have a boyfriend from a competitor company! Then, I remembered a corporation that I worked for that had rules about competitors. I was not allowed to leave my job to go and work for a direct competitor in the same field (even if it was a better job for me, better pay, whatever). I would have to have left the company for a minimum of one full year before accepting a position with a competitor. Now, having said that, I have no idea how they could enforce that... I mean, how would they know who you are working for unless someone told them? But it was still written in the company policies and I had to agree to be bound by them when I accepted the job. [thinkingoutloud]
For me Facebook details are the owner's own right to disclose. But then, if the pictures or information might in a way defame the company where she works, this can be very subjective. Pictures that suggest negative things about the company should not in the first place displayed unless accidently. The only thing for the company to monitor on it's employees' Facebook details is the 'time-stamped' stating when did the employee updated the activities which might had been done during working hours ie: the employee is not doing his/her jobs during the stipulated time. [rj4pau]
You know, you're right rj4pau... I've always been amazed at how much time people can devote to the internet while they are at work. I am self-employed so I am able to check in here at myLot or visit other sites whenever I choose because I'm working in my own office. However, I know when I was in a corporate setting, I would never have had unlimited hours to be online with all the other work I had to do. Not to mention that a couple of companies I worked for (as an employee or a consultant) blocked access to social networking sites and all the instant messaging clients anyway. Also, no checking webmail accounts during the workday (so no hotmail, yahoo or aim - at the time). If you needed to do research that was work-related and the site you wanted was blocked, you had to submit a request, approved by your superior, stating the reason you needed to have access and they would grant it only to the employee that was approved. Very strict policies. [thinkingoutloud]
I think that sounds reasonable personally, if she is representing the company then she must have an appropriate page on FaceBook. The other thing I could think of though, is that she could possibly set the page to private (can you do that? I don't have Facebook so I'm not sure). That way only her friends could see the pictures and it wouldn't matter to the company. At the office where I work we don't have company shirts, but we are not allowed to write about office drama on our blogs. If caught, it is asked that the blog pages with the content be removed. But if you set the blog to private they'd never know. [Pigglies]
Oh I agree completely! LOL Once I'm done with work, I really want to be DONE with it. Thanks for your response about someone definitely getting fired -- I don't know but... if I was warned for something at work, I sure wouldn't do it repeatedly unless I didn't care if they fired me. [thinkingoutloud]
Hi thinkingoutloud, the HR department is right in these two instances. Since both incidents involved various international laws, the company is right to take action, so that violation of law does not occur. The company logos and name are not for use in non-commercial purpose, and logos and name are protected by business law and trademarks. As for the second instance about the girl vomiting, there is such law about privacy or something. That's why all those paid-for-images site advice to have model release form ready. Unless your daughter's friend has the necessary document, then she is protected. Otherwise the girl caught in camera can sue your daughter's friend for volating her rights or something. [scheng1]
Thank you very much, scheng1! I really do believe, after all of this good discussion so far, that the company logo situation is absolutely the clearest and easiest part of the situation because they do have the right to object to any use of their logo that they deem is offensive or inappropriate. [thinkingoutloud]
My company has been doing this as well although for a lot more petty reasons. One of the higher-ups in the district got fired for complaining about work on his facebook (understandable... but still) and my boss advised myself and other employees to remove the company's name from our facebook page to prevent it happening to us should we say or post anything that *might* give HR reason to look into it and potentially eliminate our positions. Granted before I even started to apply for jobs I removed any pictures and information that might seem to degrade me in the eyes of potential employers and I have not nor will I ever complain about my company on a public forum despite that everyone complains about their job from time to time. The internet is not the place for that. [allisonbrk]
allisonbrk, thanks for lending more confirmation to the discussion in the way of showing that people are definitely getting fired for their Facebook pages. From what you've described, it seems at your company they focus on the things that involve company trademarks or any kind of negativity around the company name? Have you heard anything about warnings regarding personal photos or other information on the pages? I would do exactly what you did and make sure to straighten up my online presence, too, if I were applying for jobs right now... it makes so much sense to do something so easy that could possibly avoid a lot of future problem. [thinkingoutloud]
I've heard of something like that happening. A friend of mine was asked to pull down some of her pictures because they looked too...racy and she was working at a camp for kids. I can understand that because it wasn't the adults that found her page, it was the kids. Yikes! As for the one in your discussion I can almost understand that too. She had her name connected with the company and was seen in a photo that wasn't rated G for general audience. Company image is everything...just keep that in mind. *Pleiades [Pleiades]
Wow - I responded to you earlier, Pleiades, and even saw it posted but then there was some glitch with the website... I came back to continue responding to people and see that there is now no comment to you! Eek... so I re-type LOL For people who work in positions of authority with young people, I agree that it's critical to be aware of one's online presence, just as those same people take care to conduct themselves appropriately in person. I think it's important not to assume that kids may be "too young" to see or find things online. I mean Facebook, since we're discussing that platform, has a 13 and up policy for creating an account, as do many sites... but kids are notorious for lying about their age and many are online much younger. Plus, they probably have friends or siblings with accounts too. Thank you for sharing a valuable reminder! [thinkingoutloud]
See, this is exactly why I make sure I don't give out my real name in public places online. It's way too easy for things like that to be found by the wrong people. I'd be totally embarrassed if anyone in my HR department ever approached me with concerns like those! I'd be very interested in seeing what this company's policies on employees' online activities are. The company I'm currently working for has fairly strict blogging policies, and employees can't mention the company by name or post photographs of themselves in clothing bearing company logos or that were taken on company property. Most of it makes sense; employees griping about bad customers isn't an image they really want to be projecting. On the other hand... do they really have the right to police employees' personal uploads online, if they don't have any direct reflection on the company? [sahmom2b]
Makes sense to me! I worked in retail while I was a college student and we were told that we had to be vigilant about watching for anyone writing things down or taking photos in the store. The manager would have none of that. He always thought his competitors were sending in people to check his prices! [thinkingoutloud]
I have had a similar experience a few years ago with the company that I was working for at the time. Though it did not involve social web pages, it did involve things that happened outside the work place. Our whole crew would head to the local bar after our grueling 4 day 12 hour shift for what we liked to refer to as "safety meetings". We would all talk about what was going on in our various departments, the bosses, the people .... you know what I mean. We invited our crew chiefs to go along also, and they did from time to time. One day I was called to the "principals" office for a chat with the VP and my crew chief. I had no idea what was up. When I got in the office, they started questioning my about things that were said OUTSIDE the work place about certain people. I was kinda of confused, and asked why I was being asked these questions. It turned out that one of the people who attended our little gatherings went back to work and told the boss that we were degrading the workplace and ragging on EVERYONE!!! I was shocked. The bosses asked me about it again. I told them that what I do outside the workplace was my personal business and I would not discuss it. They continued on asking. I held my ground, again saying it was not their business to butt into my personal life. They kept hounding me until I asked if I needed my attorney to be present. At this point I was informed that I would receive a week off from work WITH pay. I shrugged and said OK. The other person involved was given a week off also, but WITHOUT pay. So this is what I believe... What you do OUTSIDE of work, should never be judged by your employers. You have a right to privacy, in your home and anywhere outside the workplace. If employers are worried about company image, then it should be in writing, read and signed at the time of hiring. That is in regards to any company logos, and conduct wile wearing any company clothing. Other than that... they should mind their own business, and worry about more important things, like running their company. [strawberryice_99207]
And you know what else, olydove? In my experience anyway, they rarely get rewarded by management for that kind of behavior (beyond maybe an initial thank you) and, sometimes, in the long run it backfires because they are no longer respected by their co-workers. People don't trust them, don't want to work with them, and it generally puts management in a position of having to do something about them later on. [thinkingoutloud]
The short story is - people need to make their Facebooks PRIVATE and only let friends in. Honestly I think it's crazy that someone out there wastes their time looking in to stuff like this for every employee, but if a person is stupid enough to have these type of things on their public profile, they deserve whatever they get. I have nothing to hide or nothing that I would consider "inapproprate" on my facebook, but still I keep it private because there is no reason the world needs to see my pages. Honestly though, situations like this just go to show how many teens are idiots when it comes to the internet. Something that would have been considered a major embarrasment years ago is now-a-days something you post on your profile! My husband and I noticed how many people "air their dirty laundry" on facebook. I've found out about friends fighting with their husbands, and other such personal issues, because they post EVERYTHING to their profile! Personally I tell my personal business to those who need to know and that's it. Facebook is reserved for fun random comments, photos, and making plans. Regardless of what is on the page, all I know is that a non-friend can't see anything except my main photo and that's it. I don't add anyone I don't know, and even with people I do know I'm careful who I add. It's just smarter that way. These teens have got to learn a little bit more about the importance of privacy. [vivasuzi]
You won't hear a word of disagreement from me, vivasuzi! happy For most young people, everything is for public consumption these days... from photos to recounts of their latest "exploits." You're so right that people even fight back and forth on Facebook and I just don't get the need for that visibility. Privacy options are available for a reason and people don't seem to want to use them. In the great popularity contest that is social networking, it seems they don't want to limit their potential number of friends (heck Tila Tequila ended up on tv by virtue of her ridiculously high friend count!). A little more "smart" could sure go a long way when it comes to what gets shared online... and I guess sometimes it does take a shake-up like this to make some people realize it! [thinkingoutloud]
i just dont know. i would be really upset if someone posted a topless pic of me somewhere and then to tag it with my real name would upset me even more. i do have a picture that i posted myself on one of my profile sites. it was at a concert and i had been drinking. man i had a huge cheezer smile and my eyes wouldnt even open for the pic... lol i think its funny and ok for me to post that because i dont act like that often. i would be really upset if something on my myspace or facebook page was a work issue. at the same time i dont blame SOME workplaces for their rules but a telephone survey company. seems silly to me. [lovinlifemindless]
Ugh... I definitely relate to what you're saying. I hate... absolutely hate... being photographed and I always have. It's really ironic because I work in online communities as my profession and yet I don't have a facebook or a myspace. It's not because I don't know how... LOL! ... it's just that I'm a really private person and I don't like "over-sharing" details about my personal life or, even worse, having other people do it for me. That extends to photos too. I like to pick and choose what I can tolerate LOL [thinkingoutloud]